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Captain_Hook's avatar

Other than some semantic and terminology points, I think we broadly agree on the best way for the game to be played.

The players need as much agency as possible. The world needs to be *internally* consistent.

My point with the treasure and the strategic is that rolling up the treasure when you beat the orcs is not in the spirit of keeping a consistent world, as the orcs would act different if they had 10,000gp than if they had 10gp.

The world is a consistent and believable place, leaving things like treasure as unknown until the players act on it is disingenuous. If the orcs really have 10,000gp then other factions are going to want some too… hopefully you also already rolled up the other local factions…

Thanks for the shout out! But I am pretty sure I am not one of the bros proper, ha

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JB's avatar

Huh. Interesting. I had not realized this was even a debate.

Although the subtitle of D&D was originally "Rules for Fantastic Medieval Wargames," I have serious doubts that the authors EVER considered the thing "a wargame." This is particularly clear from reading the Foreward to OD&D's Book I, "Men & Magic." Rather, I believe that the subtitle refers to the fact that these are RULES FOR fantastic medieval wargames...a supplementary text/system to such games...and while they may have felt that no one in their right mind would play D&D withOUT the wargaming bits, it is EXPLICIT in Gygax's Foreword that they were aware the game held large appeal even to non-wargamers.

Regardless, Captain Hook's premise is a false one. Yes, D&D offers tactical gameplay...like a wargame. Yes, it offers strategic ("campaign") gameplay...like a wargame. But a wargame holds an endpoint in mind...WINNING THE WAR...and D&D offers no such objective. Despite use of the term "campaign" to describe a particular Dungeon Master's table and on-going game, there is no ultimate enemy to be overcome (via tactics or strategy). Certainly the players will never defeat the Dungeon Master, no matter how hard they try. Yes, they might drive the Dungeon Master from the field (forcing them to abandon the game) but this is not "winning" nor is it a stated objective or victory condition of the game.

Wargamers like Captain Hook may be confused by the wargaming authors' lazy use of terms in describing their own game, but I give Gygax & Co. a break: they created a new type of gaming and they were groping in the dark for a suitable lexicon (calling it a "Braunstein" would have just confused the issue further). However, we now have the term "RPG" to describe the game, as good a term as any...or, at least, it WAS before the term was co-opted to describe the improvisational play-acting that is the prevalent game culture of our present day.

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